Open Forum Discussions and Debate

There is a bunch of old guys, some still working, most retired, who gather for coffee every weekday morning at 10:30. Wide discussions ensue and at 10:45, the chairman takes pen and paper napkin in hand and starts the 'game'. The 'game' determins who buys the coffee that day. I joined the group about 25 years ago. The reason 10:30 Monday thru Friday is sacred to me is the same reason sudoku.com.au is at the top of my favorites list. The answer to Mamacita's question, in my opinion, is Mamacita herself. It is her and all the other people who make up an eclectic anyplace group that gives it a life of its own. Just like the coffee guys, once in a while we loose one and once in a while, someone new shows up and has to learn all the 'rules'. We lost our chairman of 30 years a few months ago and someone stepped in to take his place, but the group lives on. It's personality is different from what it was so long ago, but its heart beats just as strongly. Learning what is acceptable and what is not is all part of belonging to any group. Learn the rules and live by them. If someone attempts to step outside the lines they are quickly shouted down and no feathers get ruffled. In all those years, I don't remember anyone getting genuinly angry about anything. Recently, there were some major changes made to this site that I didn't care too much for. I took a couple of weeks hiatus but eventually couldn't stay away. People to people connections are just too fragile and fleeting to give up. New rules...same old group. Gotta love the group, don't have to necessarily like all of the rules, but there they are. Any group is a reflection of its community and a community is a reflection of the overall society. Anywhere you go, acceptable and unacceptable behavior are pretty much universal. How a society chooses to deal with the unacceptable is a reflection of its moral fabric. The moral fabric of sodukoland seems to be made of stout stuff which makes it a pleasant place to spend a part of each day...after coffee.

an Indian software engineer was detained for not producing the original passport when demanded ,in a shopping mall region,in Malaysia.foreigners do not carry the originals as street muggings and theft in local transport system is in a high rate in Malaysia..the engineer was handcuffed and taken to the illegal immigrant cell!where he spent a few hours before his employer showed up with the originals and proved his identity..well thats a kinda life abroad!even i dont carry the originals when travelling local,for the fear of losing..wonder if the US police are as strict as this malaysians..cant imagine myself with a couple of thugs in a cell with a hand cuff!!

Wow, Appy, neither can I. Immigration is becoming such a hot button topic anymore, yet we in America are a land of immigrants. Here we are told not to carry originals for fear of thief or loss. I know it happens, but I can't begin to comprehend being stopped and treated in that manner.

Hi Jeb, like your thoughts. Congrats on becoming a member(if indeed that was you on the 'new members' patch). Please explain 'the game'? I'm intrigued.

ditto Mary - jeb...you add to the 'kaleidoscope'.

Ok Mary, you asked for it. Pour yourself a cuppa, this may take a while.
The 'game' is quite easy to understand but difficult to explain. It is steeped in tradition and lore.

When the chairman takes the pen from the pocket calendar (which is kept by the proprietor in his desk drawer) and a fresh 'pristine' paper napkin called the 'ballot' the game is afoot, there is an almost reverent hush that comes over the table. He draws a small square in the center of the ballot and writes a secret number between 0 and 1000 on the palm of his hand. Only he knows the number. The person to his left chooses a number which is recorded either above or below the box depending on whether it was above or below the secret number. This goes on until someone gueses the secret number. If the number is guessed before the turn returns to the chairman, it is declaired a first round guess. The person to the chairman's right, the 'catbird seat', may 'push' the chairman into winning (or losing) if the next number up or down is 'it'. In this case, everyone gives a dollar to the winner, he pays for coffee and gives the counter girl a tip with the balance. When there is a larger than usual group, everyone is quite thankful that it only cost them a dollar. If, however, the number hasn't been discovered by the time it returns to the chairman, he has to take then next number up or down depending on whether the number taken by the person in the catbird seat was high or low. The game continues on from there until the number is guessed.. at this point, one doesn't want to guess the number..that person is stuck with paying for all the coffee to everyone elses great relief. He is thanked in various degrees from feigned unction to derisive ridicule for being so foolish as to pick that particular number. There are many strategies that are involved during this process. Splitting the difference is one. It is a well known axiom that it is better to be the splitter than the splittee. Just last week the splitter became the splittee and a great philosophical debate ensued. Depending on how many people there are, what the current spread is, how much you trust those to your immediate left to cooperate in continuing the split in 'sticking' those at the far end of the table all go into deciding whether or not to split at any given stage of the game. There is the 'Cane' referring to the story of Cane and Able. There is a benevolent Cane and a malicious Cane. This manoeuvre is employed by picking a number two steps up or down from the spread leaving the person to your left with no way out if the secret number falls between. It is benevolent if done on the first round or malignant if done on subsequent rounds. The double Cane is when a player takes the middle number when there are only three numbers left. What is a remarkable event is when the game goes down to the last number and that person is stuck by default. It happens more often than you would think.

At the end of

Drat! Major tomes are limited to scale.
At the end of the year, the data collected in the calendar is entered into a database. Charts and graphs are created showing who bought how many cups of coffee that year, how many time each got stuck, whether it was a first round win or otherwise, a standard deviation chart on what numbers were used through the year. All quite detailed.
Through it all, a sense of jocularity prevails.

jeb
who thought the game up and what is it called??

...and how long does it take to play - roughly? It sounds like it could take on marathon proportions...
Mary, you got all that?? I got 'lost' somewhere around 'OK Mary...'
When we meet for our hot choccie (end of the month - say last week in June?) we'll give it a burl (oz slang)...

everyone thought I would pop in and finally post in here.

Jeb: gotta love your game. Sounds very much like our TV show 'The price is right', but instead of winning a prize you get to buy everyone a cupa!
hmmmmmm major major blond moment here.
Mind you, the companionship, laughter and all will be well worth it I say.

Oh Jeb, The game does indeed sound wonderful, and I can see similarities to some of the jocularity that is demonstrated on this site. I'd love to be an observer on the wall while this is taking place. BTW, I think you did a marvelous job explaining it too. I can just envision the June meet up trying this on????

OK Billy, but I bags sitting in the 'catbird seat'...yay!! I have always wanted to use that phrase and now I have!!

Jeb, maths isn't my strongest suite but you say 'In this case, everyone gives a dollar to the winner, he pays for coffee and gives the counter girl a tip with the balance.' Does this in fact imply that a cup of coffee costs less than $1?

Yup Mary, coffee here went up to a whopping 75 cents last fall and nearly caused a revolution. The only reason starbucks has made it so big is because some people are willing to pay more for something than it's worth just for appearances. Coffee is coffee. Add something to it and call it something else and P.T. Barnum's favorite people will flock to buy it. And before you start on me, yes I did buy a starbuck something or other once for 3 dollars. What it was, was not worth 3 dollars. Fool me once.... You don't want to know what I think of people who pay more for a gallon of water than they'll pay for a gallon of petrol, drink half of it and throw the rest away.

jeb - I am presuming that it's the water that they drink half of? - not the petrol?

jeb...sounds as if you and my hubby have been chatting. You seemed to have expressed his views about coffee and water quite well. Glad I don't drink coffee, and I've read too much about how/where the companies that are bottling and selling water, are finding their 'spring' water, to be a naive consumer....water is out-selling soda (pop)in most if not all states, so I've been told.

Bottled water costs more per gallon, if you buy the smaller individual bottles, than gas (petrol). It also has an impact on the environment, since the bottles are usually made of petroleum products and also need to be transported (more gas).

Jeb, AArrgghh coffee here is $3-$4, Billy's hot chocolate I expect to be around $4-$5. I agree that it's water and additives but if everyone ups the price what can you do?

At a recent outdoor event, vendors were selling 20 oz. bottles of water for $2.00. That breaks down to 6.4 bottles per gallon or $12.80. Petrol is currently $3.199/gal locally. I'm just curious if it is the cost of water exploration, refining or scarcity of the resource that makes it so dear. Transportation can't be the issue because there is water right here. They didn't need to bring it in, we got lots of water to spread around and we'll share. And how about the bottled water brand 'Evian'? That is naive spelled backwards. I remember a comedian from back in the early 60's pointing out how those 'stupid, ignorant, backwoods southerners were selling water to those brilliant yankees'. In hindsight, it is clear that the man was a prophet. One last observation; Art Linkletter made a living out of showing that People Are Funny.

And the parents who are inflicting bottled water on their children are depriving their kids of fluoride, leading to bigger dental problems and expenses. Serves the dirty little Starbucks-Volvo-Whole Foods-dot.com over-achievers right...the parents, that is...and maybe the kids, too.

Tap water is safe to drink here but the 'boutique' style bottled water is huge business. Has the tap water in the US got a 'bad rap' like in the UK? I was told not to drink tap water from friends in England but wasn't sure if they had been brainwashed into thinking it wasn't safe after knowing it had been treated at least 8 times already...I continued to drink tap water there - it tasted fine and I never suffered any ill-effects.
The only positive i can see coming from this is that fizzy drinks may be on the wane (or am i being naive here?) - the amount of damage that can be attributed to them is beyond belief - obesity, osteoporosis, rotten teeth...it's a shame it has been replaced by bottled water, maybe the light bulb will come on and people will realise that what they are drinking is the same stuff that comes out of a tap...
Starbucks has not reached Perth shores - Mary - is there a blockade on them, seeing as we have a trillion other coffee shops here?
My hot choccies range from $3.50 - $6. But i have to say the $6 one is exquisite and only ever a treat (it can also make me feel quite billious as it is so rich).
After my last order of hot choc I have had to revise what I ask for - clearly they do not realise that 2 inches of froth is not liquid...
'mega/your largest hot choccie with skinny milk, scalding hot, no froth, chocolate sprinkles and two marshmellows only, please...got it? good...'

well here in my place milk and water seems to cost more or less the same/milk cheaper than water sometimes when paid for month..and petrol is way too high,costs 3 to 4times more than that..
water/G costs around a Dollar...and petrol around 3 to 4$...

and i used the tap water straight ,to drink and for other purposes when stayed in US..er you think i will have any trouble??i was told it was safe to use it..here at home i use a water purifier,for the pipe lines that carry the trated water are too old and theres always a risk of contamination..

Billy, yum yum, looking forward to it

the bottled water/tap water argument rages here with the discussion also of the soon to be added fluoride to our water.
through the motel we collect empty/half empty bottles of water by the trillions left in the rubbish or on bench tops.
personally I drink tap water by mega litres each day, however I did resort to bottled water for a while recently when our storages were being pumped from the dead water levels of the dam. the amount of chemicals being put into the tap water was not acceptable. I am now back drinking tap water and we will have fluoride added shortly.

the hot chocolate/coffee discussion is interesting. I dont personally drink coffee so it is not an issue for me but they are a massive money making exercise and hence why so many 'coffee shops' exist and make big bucks (no pun intended for Starbucks)
I do very occasionally enjoy a beautiful hot chocolate but I find that many of them are not made hot enough. they too are good money makers.

We sell pots of tea, coffee, milo for $2-50 and make great money out of them. It amazes me how people continue to order them when they are given a supply of tea and coffee for free in their rooms.

ap, I use tap water all of the time. The water here is much better than 20 years ago, and of course the added fluoride is very beneficial. Bottled water can be convenient. Yet like most things we use for convenience sake...its expensive. Its also a fashion statement to many !

We have great tap water here, drink it exclusively.
My kids in Texas (Ft. Worth) won't drink the tap water there, only drink bottled or filtered water.
AP, the water in the US is safe to drink but in some places minerals in the water affect the taste.
If I do buy bottled water for carrying around, I buy the cheapest I can find, usually a store brand. Tastes the same to me as the ultra-hyped Evian. Buy Evian and you're just paying for their advertising!

Have people noticed this ad in the upper right hand corner?

Private Label - 16.9oz
Purified Bottled Water 1,440 Bottles - $797 Delivered

Big Brother is doing more than watching...and I hope nobody starts talking about Al-qaeda.

The ads on this alternate/rotate, and the ad for bottled water disappeared after a page reload; but eventually it showed up again.

I think I just heard a gauntlet hit the floor. This sounds like a good challenge. If the adverts on the page reflect what the discussion point of the day is, lets give it a go. Maybe some really obscure subject like button hooks or typewriter ribbons or pitot tube covers.

Well Jeb, I just love pitot tube covers and I wish I could find a reasonable outlet where I could chose another one for my collection.

well now i have all the details of desalination products..and been pestered to buy a water meter that i dunno how to use..all that i did was just made a post on the rates of gas and water...

and yes it did disappear when reloaded and eventually re appeared..and an array of small clips on Huntington avenue(real estate,space hunting) appeared after i made a post on the description of the pic in the tough page today..and they too disappeared after a reload..funny..cant figure out..beyond my naive brain perhaps i think..

I assume that this ''mysterious'' linkage between the convo and the ads is simply a function of the Google search function attached to this site. Google searches the site regularly. When it sees a word for which it has sponored links, it posts an ad with the link. This was noticed a long time ago, but people just thought it was their imaginations. But the business with Amazon cookies (see earlier post) is another example. But that example is a lot more personal, since those ads are based on the individual, not the convo.

Let's try hybrid cars. Anybody have anything to say about hybrid cars? Will we now see ads for hybrid cars? Will I be the only person to see ads for hybrid cars, and other people won't see them until they use the term (hybrid cars) in their own post?

G'morning Ian..well i still see water meter and an invitation to taste spring water from Austria..plus Aqua crystals in all the colors i want is offered in a 'great price'..
hybrid cars??ok i will try...

Global warming is related to automotive exhaust emissions.and hybrid cars are fuel efficient plus a bit low in the harmful emissions that trap the heat that enhances the warming..usage of hybrid cars shall reduce the oil consumption and burning less fuel means less pollution..

I'm still getting offers for bottled water, a futile endeavour.
Ian: What a downer. You just squelched the pseudo-mystique with your logical explaination. It was so much fun to imagine some poor slob sitting at his crystal ball day and night watching what all us good boys and girls were talking about so he could slip in a trademark.

Hybrids: My #2 son bought a Honda Civic hybrid 2 or 3 years ago and loves it. He gets 50 MPG (+or-) and has had no mechanical or electrical problems with it to date, knock on wood. The really cool thing about it is that while stopped at an intersection, the engine shuts off completely. It also has the smoothest gear shifter I have ever double clutched. Only when he presses the footfeed, the electric starts the car moving and the engine restarts. Just like a gas powered golf cart. I'd trade my F150 in for one, but use the bed for all sorts of projects. Can't haul a winter's worth of firewood in a Civic.

Mary: You would probably enjoy being a member of the IPTCCC. It was formed in 1927 so you can still sign up as a charter member. You can get on the mailing list of the International Pitot Tube Cover Collector's Consortium by contacting them at PO Box 357789202D44, Thule, Greenland or by telegraph to XRTubecozy.

eBay has pitot tube covers for a Cessna and a Piper. Let's see if that link shows up.