Open Forum Discussions and Debate

Rose/Ian I presume we are talking about single men and women here, hopefully.

Perspective makes this a difficult subject to address. As a fleet sailor (squid to Ian) adventure was what you made of it. And that's all I'm going to say about that, Billy. 40 years later the regard for such behavior is much less enthusiastic. Self respect and respect for others plays the main role. After seeing ads on the telly for 'Girls Gone Wild' and now 'Guys Gone Wild', acknowledging the age of the girls and guys, it's easy to form a theory that those people have absolutly no self respect. Lack of self respect is not gender specific. I think that is a major character flaw, one which Ian recognizes in those with whom he chooses not to do business. But respect is something that can be learned.

The human brain is just a mass of nerve cells stimulated by sight, sound, touch, and other sensations carried in from around the body. The brain adapts to these sensations however it can, but the needs of an organized society must often force restraints upon our natural responses.Se xual reproduction adds complication and so females were generally forbidden from having free sex.Inorder to maintain the traditional morality and to strike a balance between the need of the community and individual desire,the females have been imposed with strict moral codes by the male dominant society.Hence the few who jump over the fence is strongly condemned and stigmatized.
rose, i think that answers the first part of the question....regarding the second part,i wonder how to abridge!!so leave it to others..
cheers

Ian ,you are one of the few that would think anything of a man fooling around and another thing that gets me man or woman is when there mate is messing around they get mad at the person there messing around with more then there mate,like its there fault ,if I caught my mate it would be HIS fault not hers

I have been lurking here and enjoying some interesting conversations. Thanks for this site, a very good idea. I cannot help but notice how many are 'googeling' to fill in the gaps of understanding of words. USA AUSSIE UK: Seperated by a common language indeed!

Now, something to think about. Has Google become to powerful? Can they rewrite history, set mores and norms, by the information they edit?

I just last week read, Google Earth has removed post Katrina satelite photos of New Orleans and replaced with pre hurricane photos. Thier reasoning? ' these Pre Katrina photos show more detail' Yep, they sure do, they show details of buildings MISSING, washed to sea. they fail to show the devistation, and the piles of trash not yet removed and the buildings not yet repaired or rebuilt.

What say you? Can we allow one refference become so powerful they can change history? If not, how do we prevent it?

There are plenty of places besides Google Earth where you can get current pics. Yes, Google has gained a position of dominance by virtue of their expertise...and like all empires, they will fall to rival technology, probably within a couple of years.

Just be very glad that Bill Gates and Richard Nixon never had the chance to get together...be very, very glad.

People who run around on their spouse.
I'll stand with Ian on this one. Betrayal, cheating, lying; all the things that make a person unfit for just about anything I can think of. Of all the things I learned from my grandfather, commitment was probably the most important. I remember him telling me at an early age that if you tell someone you are going to do such or such, you do it even if it peels a scab off the end of your nose. I had told him that I would mow his lawn one Sat. morning in the middle of August but some friends were going swimming. Guess what I chose to do. The disappointment he displayed in my going back on my word hurt me worse that anything else he could have done. That was back in the day when I could walk into the bank and get a small loan on a handshake. This has nothing to do with the subject at hand but the principle is the same. I keep bringing up respect, one of the few commodities that can only be gotten by giving it away. By my estimation, anyone who would betray another has no respect to give so in turn is themselves devoid of respect from others.

What an interesting concept blew in while I was composing my previous drivel. Revisionists arise! Google like any tool has to be used judiciously. I've known a hammer or two who were misused by inexperienced hands leaving the hammered project in total ruin. Could a person who takes everything they read on the internet as truth be called a fool, consequently be ordained to remain a fool? Google is a market driven machine. If google consumers and sponsors become disenchanted with the product, either google will have to change to meet expectations or shrivel and die. The power of stakeholders (and stockholders) is not to be taken lightly.
In respect to Google Earth, a very entertaining sideshow, have any of you searched for the Nazca Lines in Southern Peru? That is a fascinating and rewarding quest. Some are very difficult to discern. If you look really closely, you can make out a single engine plane flying low over the plain. Must be turistas.

were the Nazca ppl capable of flight?/amazing pictures..thanks Jeb..

Jeb I agree ,there's one thing you can't buy is trust ,you earn trust if its in business ,friendship or relationship you can't give anything more of value,its the most important thing we can give is our loyalty.

ap:
Nothing is know about who put those lines there or why or even when. There has been lots of speculation even to the extent of a connection to extraterrestrials. Those aren't the only oversized pictographs in Peru. A little further North near a small village, there are a few that can been seen on the side of a hill.

Ian, yes, there are other places to get pictures besides Google Earth. There are other places to look up words and information, you and I both know and use them. But where do most people go for information? They 'google it'. If Google has the ability to change the New Orleans photos to suit their whim, they have the ability to change anything on their site. There ARE people who consider anything on the Internet as true, just as there have always been people who thought anything printed in the newspaper had to be true. My point is, there were more newspapers, with more points of view, each in the hands of fewer people, therefore their realm of influence was more limited. Google is accessed by people all over the world, their influence is global, and therefore their potential to control information is a real threat. Having another company rise to take Google's place is not comforting, they have the same potential for control, and they could be even more power driven, more corrupt, more controling. So much power, or potential power in one place is frightening. Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I guess we are all stigmatized to some extent on both counts but I do feel that women are treated badly, if you were to look in a dictionary I wonder how many words would describe a womans behaviour if she is deemed 'loose' compared to a male? I was taught to respect myself and treat others how I would wish to be treated. Respect is a very difficult word to use in some aspects re: cultural differences, learned responses etc.
Having had children my definitions altered in the way I approached things, view ideals etc but that intrinsic value of self respect never left me.

I wonder how much of it is purely Darwinian? The male's ''genetic responsibility'' is to ensure the continuation of his line, and what we call promiscuity enhances the prospects for that.

The female's Darwinian response is ''Hey, I might be pregnant, and I'll need a 'committed' mate to hunt for me while I'm unable to.''

Ian I think you are right, we are different and perhaps we should stop trying to become something that deep down in our hearts will never be achieved, perhaps we need to learn that valuable lesson 'compromise'. A relationship needs to built on so much more than perhaps what society sees today as equal, in reality it is all about trusting, respecting and a sharing of equal values but each with his/her own merits contributing to a partnership. Does that make sense?

André: You've got something there. What's interesting to me is the confluence of a couple of threads here....trust, evolution, nature, society. Would a lion ever think to himself, 'well, I'm not going to hunt with that guy because he doesn't feed his mate...'

One more observation...I think the complimentary vocabulary (stud, lucky, swordsman) about men being promiscuous is confined to the young. Later in life, it's 'skirt-chaser' (or less polite terms). Certainly descriptive of an undisciplined fool. And remember the classic ''There's no fool like an old fool.''

Curious about something....

In the US, people have gotten into the habit of placing ''roadside memorials'' to those who have died in auto accidents (especially teenagers). Flowers, personal messages, baseball gloves and teddy bears pile up overnight. The phenomenon has also extended to the site of fatal house fires and even murder scenes.

I find those things repugnant and self-centered. They're almost always accompanied by a television camera. It's as though someone is saying, ''Oh boo hoo, I'm grieving, everybody pay attention to me.''

Does this happen in Oz (or elsewhere), and what do people think of it?

Ian - crosses and flowers are left at roadside accident sites here. They are small tokens, nothing over the top. It has been done from as long as I can remember here in WA and possibly the rest of Oz. It tends to be for teenagers as they are the ones that are mainly involved in the fatalities.

Having said that, there is a crossing not far from me where I witnessed a fatality a few months back - a motorcyclist lost his life when a car pulled out in front of him. He was 34 and had a wife and 2 kids. There is always a small bunch of red roses placed where he lost his life. I would imagine that it is his family that are placing the flowers there, as are the families of the other victims.

I have never seen 'piles', or evidence of the media overplaying it. I suppose I'm trying to say it is done with dignity.

Maybe because it has been for a long time part of the 'landscape'and perhaps we have become immune or accepting of the practise. A young boy was knocked over by a drunk driver a few years back, he was crossing from his house to the park and 'they'(whoever 'they' are) erected a park bench where he died in memory...I see nothing obscene about that. I pass the park bench every so often and my heart goes out to his parents.

I can't say I know about the practise extending to fatal house fires and murders as there are so few of them here...

Maybe I'm weird..ok I'm weird...but many people from this site and personal friends were saying how good the Amazing Human Body Exhibition was. So I toodled off to gawp at it and had to leave as soon as I saw the first few corpses - i couldn't stomach it. I didn't feel queasy - I felt repulsed by it. As i get 'older' I think I am questioning dignity in death perhaps? I felt the stirrings of it when my brother insisted on a viewing of the coffin when our dad died. The same again when I saw the Lindow Man at the British Museum and also the mummies they had on display...I had seen them all before and was fascinated, now I'm not.
I have heard conflicting reports on where the bodies came from for the Human Body Exhibition, but if the people donated their own bodies for such a public display, it should be ok...I'm still trying to figure out where my indignance is sprouting from...where's that straightjacket?

Ian - We have the 'memorials' on the roadsides also, usually just a wooden cross and some flowers. This hit very close to home for my daughter as one of her friends was killed when she lost control of her car on her way to work 5 days before Christmas 2005. I have not seen piles of things around these markers and I believe they serve the purpose of reminding us(especially teenagers) that nobody is inviciable. As they pass these markers hopefully it sends them the message to slow down, pay attention, and be careful so you don't leave the people that love you.

Ian/B, why do you find these signs of grief repugnant? I believe that each person should be able, even encouraged, to do what they need to do to acknowledge a loss. If that need is a roadside cross or flowers, then let them put them up. No one should expect you to do the same. Again, it is about respect, and our differences. We all do not react to death and dying in the same way, we all do not show (or hide) our grief alike.

Here in rural Alabama, there are many floral memorials or crosses at the site of a fatal accident, and if you know the details and notice, you will see that they are replaced at holidays, anniversaries of the death, or birthdays of the deceased. ALL of those times are the hardest times for the grieving, and doing something to remember the deceased helps many with their grief.

Many families have to pass the site of the fatal accident daily. If seeing the memorial brings them comfort, I say go for it.

Only few times have I seen more than one floral tribute or cross, and that is usually when a child or teen is killed, or when there is multiple deaths. Something that many find hard to believe or accept. Placing a memorial helps to make this real to them, the first step to accepting the loss.

I know at Enterprise High School, where 8 people lost their life in a tornado the first of March, the other students brought flowers, balloons, teddy bears and there was a spontaneous memorial. Most of these teen age students bringing the tributes had never experienced the death of someone close to them, especially someone their own age. This 'doing something', placing flowers, can be very healthy for them. They have acknowledged the loss and are remembering the dead. In my opinion and many mental health experts, NOT acknowledging the loss is the most unhealthy thing one can do.

NOW, having said that, I find a point I can agree with you , and that is the media swarming around these spontaneous memorials, sensationalizing them, interviewing the grieving, trying to record tears. That to me is the repugnant behavior, not the remembering of the lost friends or loved ones.

BTW at one time the State of Alabama put up simple white crosses on the site of roadside fatalities, one for each life lost. It was thought seeing the crosses, especially at locations where repeat accidents took many lives, people driving might drive more carefully. This practice was discontinued when someone figured out the increase in repair costs to the roadside mowers was because they were hitting these crosses. NOW, only memorials individuals place on highways that are placed far back past the mowed strips are allowed to stay.

Ian - (in or elsewhere)There are often 'tributes' left at roadsides/lamp posts etc usually from family and friends. More noticeable over the last decade, but always done with respect, no overtures and often seen as a last farewell to their loved ones. Holidaying in the Greek Islands there are hundreds of candle lit memorials on the roadside complete with an individuals' photograph, a testament to appalling driving on often treacherous roads.. It is always a sad event to see and it brings home the fragility of life and perhaps serves as a warning to others passing the 'sp*ot'. On a recent visit(two weeks ago) to London I was in Hammersmith. There have been so many sh**ting fatal*ities in that area, young boys no older than 15, g*ng*land viol*ence(not usually seen in this country to such an extent) the amount of 'tributes' was like revisiting a scaled down version of London on the death of Princess Diana, that I didn't like at all, and there has certainly been a fair bit of camera play on those memorials.. giving 'ga*ngs' airtime to voice their sancti*monious 'bu*lsh*t' pardon my french! (random * placed as I have tried to post this 5 times and am at a loss to see what is stopping it!!)

To each his own, I guess. But there is one irony...Public Works departments in a lot of places are removing the individual memorials because people look at them while driving...and cause accidents.

If they get much more numerous, will they become as familiar as telephone poles and lose their intended effect completely?

Its gone very quiet in here.. Billy I looked up The Amazing Human Body Exhibition it looks fascinating. Not sure how I would feel about seeing it in the flesh, the website appears to have some excellent information on the whole process involved in the transformation of the bodies but the faces do look gruesome.

'yonks' - can we have some research on this word peoples? There seems to be some controversy on 'At the Flicks' with regards to the derivation of this word...

Is yonks how yanks would sound if spoken by someone from certain neighborhoods of Yorkshire?

jebbles - sounds good enough for me - end of discussion...although come to think of it, it sounds more aristocratic dahling, okay yaah? i.e. those yonks have a rather narsty habit of masticating skoal in one's mouth don't you know old chap...

Worldwidewords.org seems to have the most plausible explanation, if not etymology.

[Q] From Jill Cormier: “I often say, ‘I haven’t seen you for yonks!’, meaning that I haven’t seen the person for quite a while. I have no idea where it comes from and it’s not in my Concise Oxford Dictionary. Can you help at all? Oh, by the way, I’m English.”

[A] You would indeed have to be from Britain or the Commonwealth to know yonks, since I don’t think it’s found in the USA at all. Everyone is as puzzled as you are by this curious word, which appeared in Britain in the 1960s with no apparent link to any other word in the language. It usually turns up in the phrase for yonks, for a long time.

Many people have told me that they have been told, or assume, that it is a corrupted form of aeons. Others say that they have heard it is an anagram of “Year, mONth, weeKS”. These are intriguing and highly inventive speculations, but I suspect strongly that they are the usual well-meant attempts at finding an origin where none is known. The anagrammatic origin is too convoluted to be plausible (and virtually all attempts at finding anagram sources turn out to be specious, anyway).

A few reference books suggest that it might be a clipped version of donkey’s years, also meaning a long time. This sounds quite daft on first hearing, but if you think about it, you can see how the onk of donkey might just have been prefixed by the y of years, perhaps as conscious or unconscious back slang. Another way of looking at it is that the source was a spoonerism on donkey’s years — yonkey’s dears, from which yonks arose by clipping. It’s only a theory, mind — nobody knows for sure one way or the other.

Interestingly the Oxford Dictionary has a list of unknown/uncertain word origin at this address
http://oed.com/bbcwordhunt/
Where they invite you to help them find the origin of a word.
jeb I keep trying to say the word yonks, it comes out as yarnks in best of British speak.. whoha henrys et al. As a Lancashire girl we would have said I've ner sen im in a lun tame. I should stop drinking bucks fizz on a beautiful day..

'yanks = yarnks' oops.

I have heard of yarnks. They are an extinct beast of burden of diminutive size once employed by the pygmy bushmen of equatorial africa. Their only purpose was to carry heavy loads. The pygmys discovered that they had nothing that needed carrying so the yarnks died of out of despair.

andré - try putting a plum in your mouf when you enunciate and... why stop?

poor yarnks...that is indeed the depths of despair....they couldn't even carry the laundry? or the groceries? or even give the kiddiwinks rides at the fair?

I think we have exhausted the means to find out where yonks originated from, but it's a good word eh?

I've been bonkers for yonks...it's all that plonk.

...so what you're saying Ian is that you're stonkered on plonk which has made you bonkers all these yonks when you could be playing with conkers and gonks instead of ogling honkers? You must be zonked...

Lets try a new word, one of my favorites; 'onomatopoeia'. BAM - if that doesn't bounce you out of your ennui, something else might.

I hate to pop your balloon, jeb, but the buzz on onomatopoeia is that it has gasped it's last as a literary device, no more sizzle. So we'll have to growl and natter about something else, or just keep it zipped.

Can't believe the illiteracy in my own post, which can't be excused as just a typo.

on a mat a piano stood
tinkling, trembling misunderstood
on a mat up here I rustled the leaves
whistling through air as I buffered the breeze
on a mat I peered through the shattering glass
pitter patter of rain on the waves of the bass
on a mat a piano stood
echoes reverberating misunderstood
on a mat up here I bounced through the air
swirling and twisting in torrents my hair
on a mat I peered through the blistering heat
scorching the skin of my pendulous feet
onomatopoeia curdled in cream
onomatopoeia its not what I seem

Very good André. Wherever did you come up with that?
Ian: Sorry to say, bud, but you were seduced by the tar baby. Once in, you can never get out and whatever the attempt to escape, the results have to be accepted as inevitable.

PS: The right rough on the par 5, 9th at Quail Ridge G.C. has been dubbed the tar baby for just that reason.