Open Forum Discussions and Debate

UK has a problem right now with the missing data discs. They contain millions of personal details and no-one can find them. One hopes an honest person finds them and returns them. If not?

9/11 - We were living in my mother's shed while financing on our home came through. I was watching something on TV, it finished, I picked up the remote and flipped stations to see what else was on. I saw the first plane in the trade centre, but thought it was an action show. When the ticker tape announcements came across the bottom of the screen I called my husband 'this is real' and cried while I watched the second plane hit and the trade centre towers collapse.

What are you thoughts?

As the site is down and I was unable to do the puzzles, I’ve had a little time to wonder around the other pages I don’t frequent. I came across this in the “where are they now” forum.

Nurn From Galway
Hi allayez, I had no computer for a long time, but I know that when I got back on, all the Smilies and the Avatars have pretty much done it for me... the whole site has got too "busy". Sorry Gath, but I know I'll still check it out from time to time. Not daily anymore, though
Dated 5/1/08

It would be interesting to hear others point of view on this. Being one that constantly uses/updates/adds to my collection of Avatars and Smilies, not to mention upgrading my page with lots of animated effects, I would hate to know that I’m offending people or have stopped others from enjoying the site.

Angie, I found Nurn's comments interesting too. The razzamattazz of avatars and smilies is obviously not to everyone's taste but that is their choice. I take it from Ian's comment after her's that he thinks they lessen the site too, something about 'bad' replacing 'good'. To each their own, I think.
For the rest of us who frequent this site on a daily basis, we obviously LOVE it. I find it easier to see who is on by looking at the avatars and the personal smilies make it a friendly place to be.

Hi Angie. As you know, Nurn and I have had some regular communication in the past. I do NOT believe Nurn's comment has anything to do with what individual people are doing on their pages. It more then likely has to do with the fact that Nurn only has dial-up Internet access, and as such, the smiles, avatars, etc. take longer to load in a low speed Internet environment. Some folks still have no access other then through a dial-up Internet with poor telephone line speeds. This makes it difficult for them to "see" the site with all the treats that members have added to their pages, as the site and pages take forever to load on their computers. Not much anyone can do about it, but the toys we use it is a deterant to folks who don't have high-speed access.

I don't use Avatars and I only use the standard smilies, but that's a choice I made based on how much time I wanted to spend working out how to do it. I personally enjoy seeing others' creations!

There have been some in the past who prefer nothing but comments about Sudoku and find the other stuff out of place and believe it detracts from the site. Some of the comments were particularly nasty. I personally like them and believe Gath looked after than problem with the 'check boxes'. Hopefully it won't be necessary for him to write more code to deal with something that makes the site even more fun!

Angie I have several friends who do the puzzles and "don't have time" for the posts, they just don't look at them but still enjoy sudoku. This site offers best of two worlds, puzzles and banter, one is welcome to one or other or both whatever takes one's fancy. I marvel at the ingenuity of the smilies and avatars and would not like the site without them.

Gail, I have no argument with your opinion.

But one thing I notice that, on this "friendly" site, I have (generally) refrained from name-calling. No matter how harsh my criticism of conduct may have been or may be, I haven't made it personal, as a rule. That has certainly not been the case with those who disagree with me. Their disagreement is almost always accompanied by the nastiest personal attacks and name-calling.

Now I wonder, why is that?

I would like to hear Nurn speak for Nurn.

Gail, an afterthought...the smilies and avatars are merely a symptom, not a cause.

At one time, this site was a great place to hear vigorous opinions from around the world. Now it is just a place to wish people a Happy Birthday and the like. Anything more substantial than that is ignored or vilified as trouble-making.

Now watch the name-calling begin again.

In my experience, a web site chat group such as this cannot stay the same. It would get stagnant and people would leave from boredom. So like all websites I have been a part of, more and bigger bells and whistles are added. This keeps some people, attracts some new people, but unfortunately it displeases other people who do not like change and they either leave or complaine.

Personally, I have lost interest at the moment in making new avatars and smilies, but I do still use the ones I have. Maybe it is because I have not had as much time as I did to spend making them, who knows?

I enjoy seeing the new ones that crop up. The Christmas ones were really good. I would be bored if the site went back to no avatars, and no personal smilies.

Miztricia1: Does that mean that bells and whistles (smilies and avatars) have become a substitute for substance and content?

I can understand if someone doesn't like the avatars and smilies because of slow internet. I have had satellite internet for just over a year and couldn't go back. The unfortunate thing is that most websites now are made for faster internet and no-one cares if people still only have dial-up.
I like seeing the avatars for the same reason Gail does, it's easier to "see" who is here. The personal smilies give people's posts individuality.

Ian, two questions:
1. What is "Gresham's Law"?
2. How is Nurn's name being taken in vain?

Gresham's Law began as an economic principle, but has been expanded over time to the simple philosophical statement: "The bad drives out the good." If you really want to go into the details, Google it for the history of currency exchange and valuation.

Someone presumed to speak for Nurn. I think it would be better to hear from Nurn directly, rather than have something invented by another person.

IAN, the bells and whistles are market driven, it is what the people want. Do they take the place of content, yep, sometimes. Most people comming to a chat such as this one are looking for entertainment, escape. Perhaps they have enough substance and content in thier daily lives.

You have to remember this, you cannot please all the people all the time, so in marketing, you try to please the greatest number. Perhaps that is what has happened here.

No-one has closed the Open Forum page. It has always been available for serious discussion. If people have chosen not to use it, then that is simply the case...choice. Similarly, discussions on other pages are dictated by those doing the discussing...again, choice.

Miztricia1, You're right, and I agree completely. The more's the pity.

I think an avatar adds to someone's cyber-character and it makes it easier to scan for an individuals posts - to seek a reply say for some comment you earlier made in relation to that person. Sometimes the smilies that people create are interesting and relevant, whilst sometimes they are uninteresting and banal. It varies.

Before this strand starated the last time this page was used was 26th of November. I guess noone wants to use it for discusion on a topic. I tried a few months ago with the Baby Gabriel Story - no one seemed interested.

Rayray: Is it possible that the problem you might encounter when you "seek a reply" is exacerbated by the number of meaningless posts?

As for Avatars - I agree with Rayray - they are helpful in identifying one's posts quickly. Also they allow one to change their "character" for a season or certain type of post.

Ian - explain the word "meaningless" and to whom is it meaningless - you - others. Many of mine, I'm sure you would classify as "meaningless".

Eve, please explain the value or interest in "whooo-hooo, one more inane post to turn the page and CP!" (Other than calling attention to oneself for no reason other than calling attention to oneself.)

Yes it is inane, but it is part of the fun, and is fun meaningless?

Should it exclude everything else by virtue of its sheer volume?

Preface: I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone and I hate the word "disrespect" used as a verb;i.e."He disrespected me")

Ian - in most ways I agree with you, but I do like the use of avatars not only to identify someone whose comments I may be seeking, but also to skip those whose I am not. And, smilies add a bid of nonsense or identity or even nonsensical identity.

While it may be convenient to turn this exchange into a discussion about avatars and smilies, that's not what it's about. Avatars and smilies have their place. What has been lost (and replaced by superficial, mind-numbing fluff, of which avatars and smilies are just the overt symbols) is the vitality and vigor that this site once exhibited.

I've found that sometimes in order to post a comment, one must wait until those whose comments are important to finish, and by that time the subject has changed.
As regards birthdays, etc,: Gath was asked to post those on a daily basis so they could be identified and so no one would be neglected when it came to "celebrating" them. It's majority rule.

I usually post my birthday wishes or welcome on the page of the person, rather than Easy, since that is who it is intended for.

I like the avatars because they make it easy to see the posts, identify the posters and they reflect the personality of the poster.

I like the smilies. I think they show thought and effort and provide a visual expression that may sometimes be lost with words. The old saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words," definitely has merit. I especially liked Angie's smilies during the Christmas season, they conveyed joy and happiness and made me feel good.

As for inane posts or conversations, there is definitely a place for such on this site. The majority of the people on the site are adults, living in an adult world, with adult resposibilities and, I imagine the majority of those adults, are in the latter half of their lives. Here is the perfect place to let out the inner child that is in all of us and have some fun. Never underestimate the power of good feelings, whether from frivilous fun, the receipt of birthday wishes or a simple hello. There will be a ripple effect and kindness spreads.

Have a great night/day everyone!

I thought Nurn's comment was that the site had gotten too busy due to all the avatars and smilies; and that is where this discussion began,
but I understand that the part left unsaid was that the substance to the discussions has been lost. I think the substance was still there when I began on this site, but at that time I was still too intimidated to make any comments; and the so-called substance was lost soon after that as I recall various names no longer appearing. So, I guess the question is: How do we get back to that; and do those now on the site really want that?

The avatars and smilies took over the minds of the people and now all they want to post is meaningless drivel.
I like meaningless drivel. I like an intellectual discussion, also. The site has apparently changed since it started. I've only been coming here for just over a year. There are a lot more members and supporting members now. There have been quite a few different topics on this forum which was made for this kind of discussion. The people that want to discuss things seriously have a place to do it. Perhaps there is too much seriousness out there and they just want to be nonsensical.

I'm a late comer to the site, only been around for a little over 6 months.

I did try to bring some substance to the site in the last week of the year with the posting on my page of the dynamics of building a float for the Rose Parade. Only about a 1/2 dozen people viewed the photos with commentary on what goes into it. I had hoped more would have been interested, it was a lot of work to put together - but at least I had fun doing it. By downloading and uploading the photos and writing the commentary, I vicariously took part in something that I have done for years and was not able to participate in this year. So to be it was rewarding. 197 of the photos are on Flicker, the balance should show up when the galleries are restored. And Woooohoooo - we won the Animation Trophy! For those few who were following the building and decorating - they could also cheer.

And for a little prattle - It just started snowing out again. Whooooohoooo!

I agree Rena. And, yes, the site has changed. I haven't been here much longer, and you've probably been posting longer than I; but since we both started on this site the personal pages, avatars, smilies, etc have been added for non-supporting members, and I think that's great. I also think that's one reason we have so many members now. And, with more members come more opinions. I don't subscribe to the seriousness that Ian proposes with no frivolity or inanity at all (sorry Ian), but some of it goes too far and too frequently by the same people. That's going to happen regardless of how anyone feels about it;inanity to some is just fun to others.

BTW, I, too, loved Angie's holiday avatars and smilies, they sure brought out the feelings of the season.

Ian ~ is this the reason you have not became a member?As a member I enjoy the option of using the smilies ans avatars,call me a big kid but if I'm paying I feel I have the right to have a voice

my avatar did not show up ,I bet Ian had something to do with that! LOL sorry Ian (kidding)

tomorrow it will most likely show up

I don't always read all the posts on easy but some days they have me almost falling out of my chair laughing. Being serious isn't a bad thing either. I think a lot of people come here because the easy page can be a fun place to visit. This particular forum was created for the serious stuff. If someone is passionate about something, they can post it here. If they want more people to join in all they have to do is let other people know where and what it is. I have seen posts about things on this page that I have checked out. Lots of times I don't bother posting but I do come and read it. That is what makes this site so special. There is something here for everybody. If it isn't, create it yourself. "If you build it, they will come."

I was thinking pretty much the same thing, Rena.
If you want to have a discussion about something serious, or something you find interesting, post it here, let everyone know it's here and that you'd like other's opinions. I have only been a member for 9 months, and a supporting member for a short time, so I don't know Nurn. I did go back in the archives to read posts. I can't say that I saw much that was earth shattering or profound.
If anyone's counting votes, I like the personal smilies and avatars. How people decorate on their personal pages is their business and their choice. I think some of them are spectacular.
Angie, please don't be concerned about offending anyone. What you've done with your graphics is terrific!